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on testimony or questions, rather of max baucus, a democrat we should point out up for re-election. what is his concern, john? >> whenever he goes book to montana we hear from small businesses we don't know what is going on, we don't know what the rules are, we don't know what the costs are. one woman says i have four small business, each are below the 50 threshold to cover my employees. do i have to add up and do i have to cover or don't i? there are no rules or regulations. in this mess very few companies are highering new people because the uncertainty is so great. bill: he said small businesses have no idea what to do. they have no idea what to expect. he goes on to say you need data. do you have any data? you have only given me concepts, frankly and not data. do they not have that? are they still trying to figure it out too? >> jay rockefeller, democratic senator from west begin and one. architects of obamacare, told secretary sebelius a few weeks ago this is the most complicated piece of legislation congress ever passed and so far it is not working. bill: he said if it is not done right t
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